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What Happened to the Halo That I Used to Know?

Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:45 pm

I am going to clearly explain what some of my core problems with this game are to hopefully find solutions around them. I have found that there have been fundamental changes to the way Halo works and that this game no longer properly reflects the core aspects of previous Halo titles. I have found that the issues boil down to four specific areas:

  1. Changes to the Radar and HUD
  2. Unpredictability of Confrontations
  3. Circular Map Movement
  4. Stats-Based Rewards System


1. Changes to the Radar and HUD

The major changes to the HUD have been the removal of the on-screen teammate arrows and the removal on the red-x death indicator(which I've spoken about before). Over time, I've noticed that these changes have affected the way people move around the map and the trust people have in each other. Because the HUD gives no help in regards to what your teammates are doing, people are less likely to help each other unless specifically told to.

Another HUD change is the grenade indicator. It appears in the center of your HUD and doesn't go away until a grenade explodes, so it tends to dominate your attention whenever grenades are thrown near you. I find that grenades alone disrupt general movement in an area now far more than ever because of this change.


2. Unpredictability of Confrontations

This is really where the heart of the matter is. The changes in Halo 4, begun with Reach, have drastically affected the underlying equality that was a staple of Halo 3. Loadouts, perks, and a plethora of weapon options have made every fight a guessing game about what your opponent may or may not have to throw at you.

To preface, one of the defining aspects of Halo 3 was that everyone spawned equal. If you had to deal with a rocket or shotgun user, they had to acquire those weapons on the map whenever those weapons spawned. If someone used a regen or bubble shield, they had to go find that and pick it up (or take it from someone else). When you got into a BR battle or a confrontation, you knew the other person outplayed you by knowing the map and game better than you, not because of a variety of different perks or loadouts.

Beginning with loadouts, the addition of the various armor abilities has not been done properly in Halo. In Halo Reach and Halo 4, the only place where loadouts have worked properly has been Invasion. In Invasion, there were pros and cons to using each loadout, even if players tended to prefer certain loadouts. Taking a grenade launcher made taking down vehicles easier, but it didn't always work best in footsoldier confrontations. Outside of Invasion, the saving grace of Reach is that everyone had the exact same limited options, and the biggest difference was which armor ability people used. Now, things are completely out of whack. Anyone can spawn with any of a myriad of options that makes predicting what people will use in a fight extremely difficult.

Continuing with perks, this is probably the most sweeping of all the changes. People now have the option of two different packages they can equip that alter how that person's player model behaves. Now, you never know if the person you're fighting can sprint forever, has a second two-handed weapon, multiple grenades, flinches less in a fight, has three grenades, etc. Everything is a guessing game.

Lastly, the weapons. I've been declaring the DMR overpowered for over two years now, and it seems that trend will continue. We now have the option of four different rifles to start the game off, but the DMR far outclasses the other weapons in most situations in the game that it's very much unfair. One of the ongoing issues with Halo is how easily players can decimate each other across the map. It further restricts map movement and forces everyone to sidle from cover to cover whenever they play. Additionally, players have been given the equivalent of a mauler when they spawn. The boltshot is far too powerful, and dominates close-quarters situations. In BTB, the plasma pistol as a starting weapon has made it damn-near impossible to run a successful warthog that isn't hiding from the enemy the entire game.

Beyond starting options, the Infinity slayer addition has also dampened the importance of map control. For years, map control was essential to utilizing power weapons. Now, the players slaying the hardest can quickly gain access to even more weapons to continue slaying. That just doesn't seem fair to me at all.

All of this adds up to a great deal of uncertainty as confront enemy players. I no longer feel like I was bested in a fight because someone outplanned me. Rather, they selected a number of combination of packages to kill me. It just hasn't been fun. I miss the feeling that the person across from me spawned with the same stuff as me, and s/he was either better than me, or I was better than him/her. It also seems to me that map knowledge is less important now, and the plan now is "Whatever, you can do whatever you want. We don't care."


3. Circular Map Movement

Another issue that continues to pester me is the circular flow of the maps. I'm not sure why, but this Halo seems to be completely about flanking. Flanking used to require planning and sneakiness. Now, it seems to be a standard practice on all maps. It seems now that it is incredibly hard to control your side of a map, because the enemy always seems to be sidling behind us. This wouldn't be so much of an issue if not for the two points I described before this. The teamwork issues and imbalance issues mean that anyone on a flank wins, so it's forced players to constantly move around the map, disrupting the concepts of map control.


4. Stats-Based Rewards System

I think all of the changes culminate here. We had this problem in Reach, but it's gotten worse now. This game is completely about grinding. You have to reach level 50 just to get access to specializations. Then, you have to reach level 60 just to gain access to the perk you picked the specialization for. Afterwards, you have to level again to 70 just to access another specialization, and then go through the same ten-level process again to use the perk. Additionally, most of the XP you get from a game comes from your performance in the game, not whether you won or not.


Conclusion

I personally feel that everything in this game culminates in selfish play, even if it unintentionally does so. I don't feel that this game encourages people to play well together. I feel it encourages people to personally play well. I think that distinction is important.

So what now????

I'm going to view more film, so if you play this game, save some of your film and send it to me, letting me know in this thread: http://halowheelmen.com/forum/viewtopic ... 31&t=14484

Hopefully I can adapt to this game and make it fun again (for me at least). Right now, I just find myself getting frustrated with getting caught by three guys rolling around the map and constantly having my hogs EMP'd and stuck.

Thoughts?
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Re: What Happened to the Halo That I Used to Know?

Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:07 pm

Call of Duty happened to it.... and all of the frustration and boringness of it came too...
 
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Re: What Happened to the Halo That I Used to Know?

Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:18 pm

hel monkey wrote:
Call of Duty happened to it.... and all of the frustration and boringness of it came too...


mostly the selfishness... there isn't much team play in COD unless you go in with a group. that being said i always had more fun in MW2 by myself than i did in halo by myself
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Re: What Happened to the Halo That I Used to Know?

Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:25 pm

You raise a lot of good points here, and it seems Halo continues to "CODify" itself more and more with each new release. As for successful hogging, I've found continued success in the Capture the Flag playlist. For starters, since it's only 5v5, at any given time you're much less likely to be tagged cross map by DMRs. The smaller team size means you can handle the confrontations in a much more favorable way. A decent driver/gunner can take on 2/3 footsoldiers at a time, whereas running into a freshly spawned pack of 5, like usually happens in BTB, is a waste of a good hog. The longer respawns, 10 secs vs. instantaneous, also mean you're much less likely to get swarmed. Finally, since it's Capture the Flag, I've noticed that most people don't start the game with a typical BTB loadout, i.e. no plasma pistols and stickies. This is a huge leg up as the opposing team is unprepared to take down vehicles. The major problem overall is that CTF isn't dedicated to larger maps. Essentially, you have to wait until you get the chance to vote for Ragnorak to see any kind of decent vehicle action.

A quick note: ordinance drops reward medals, not kills. I know this is kind of splitting hairs and usually the person with the most kills has the most medals, but it is an important distinction. Plenty of times I've died, but respawned with a drop because my team was able to clean up the mess I left behind, rewarding me with assists and filling the ordinance.
 
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Re: What Happened to the Halo That I Used to Know?

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:38 pm

Now you're just some Halo that I used to know?
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Re: What Happened to the Halo That I Used to Know?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:43 am

I'm really sorry you're just now gathering your thoughts on this, I guess you haven't gotten to play the game as much as I have. I don't mean that to belittle your conclusions, but I feel like if I had known other people hadn't come to these conclusions already I could have warned you.

Rather than rehash my own complaints with the game I'll take the moment to challenge your final conclusion. 343 definitely designed this game with the intent that players would play it stupidly and selfishly, I have been saying something similar on 343Industries.org and Halowaypoint.com for a long time now. However that empowers teamplay rather than weakens it. It encourages all the things they wanted to discourage and discourages all the things they wanted to encourage. Basically the way to play Halo 4 is to play the opposite of how it was meant to be played.

Here's why: This game is designed so that the natural inclinations of players will be to move around constantly, get one kill, then die. That's the design. Somewhere when they were making this game they had that up on a dry-erase board: Get one kill then die. Never stop moving. No camping. Everyone's a winner.

It's designed so that fights will find you and you can't withstand more than one. Seriously, this isn't my opinion or my fancied observation, this is the math of Halo 4. I'll explain it as soon as I'm asked, but that's not the goal of this post.

So what do you do? The fights are going to find you no matter what, but in order to slow down the rate at which you endure them you have to stop moving to them. That buys you some time.

Next up: Teamwork. They put almost zero support for teamwork in this game aside from nav points on your allies and points for assists. Players are still on teams though, which means that the players who move and work as a team suddenly have MORE of an advantage than they did in previous Halos. Why? Because the game doesn't support teamwork, so when you import teamwork you have a whole new thing the other side doesn't.

Finally, we come to camping. This is the most anti-camper Halo yet, primarily due to map design and Promethean Vision. I love Promethean Vision, but the maps in this game are designed with a goal in mind. I figured out why I always hated popular maps like Midship in older games, and that reason is they are the most like Halo 4 maps. What it comes down to is the maps don't have strong points. They don't have any easily defensible locations. The MOST defensible locations on maps with them are more like death traps due to the amount of ways into the area. For this reason you must move constantly or get overwhelmed from multiple angles and die. That's Halo 4 map design. It's entirely deliberate and succeeds its goal on a professional level.

The problem with it is you're damned if you do, damned if you don't, so your solution to the anti-camping measures is actually to camp harder. That or move your entire team as a unit. Which you should do actually depends on the map. In a map like Haven you need to move as a unit between a couple locations. Haven is the pinnacle of Halo 4 map design. On maps like Solace, Abandon, and a lot of BTB maps, you're better off camping. Halo 4's map design is a lot more influential on smaller maps, I think that's part of why BTB consistently has a larger population than regular 4v4, because Halo players don't really like being surrounded all the time.

Why camp when the game is anti-camper? Because once again the fights will find you, so it's better to pick a spot with some high ground and some cover and get ready for them. You can't defend the location, but you can defend yourselves in the location and hopefully get more kills on the enemy team than they get on you before you have to move or are wiped out. The game becomes a series of tactical retreats from everywhere to anywhere. You run away until you can turn and defend yourself, then you do.

The problem with all my suggestions is that they're hard as hell to train yourself for, specifically because the game is designed to kill you when you follow what feels natural. Thus you have to really focus on overcoming your initial responses to situations and go against what feels natural. When I've done it successfully I've been ridiculously successful in the games, but most of the time I'm too much of a barbarian to pull it off. Everything about the game is designed to kill you though, so individual players and teams need to learn to shake it off. The best players already learned a lot of this stuff, but most of us aren't "the best." Things like learning when to run away and biting off only as much as you can chew, that's professional thinking and most players aren't in that league. Games are designed for "most players."

Remember that more than anything else though, the game is designed to get you killed. Everything about it is some kind of trap, not by accident either. They wanted it to play more like CoD, that's a fact, and they did it by quite literally contracting with professionals to achieve that result. It sounds like a goofy conspiracy theory the way I'm saying it, but in order to get players to die easily you have to get them to play along. You do that by giving them a sense of security because they'll obviously never go down willingly. In order to get the game to play like CoD they had to lower the kill times and such, but they also had to get most players to play like idiots. They did that with diabololical game design. Like I said, it's mathematical the way they proceeded.
Last edited by Bloody Initiate on Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Happened to the Halo That I Used to Know?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:45 am

You make your own team-work.

Why camp when the game is anti-camper? Because once again the fights will find you, so it's better to pick a spot with some high ground and some cover and get ready for them. You can't defend the location, but you can defend yourselves in the location and hopefully get more kills on the enemy team than they get on you before you have to move or are wiped out. The game becomes a series of tactical retreats from everywhere to anywhere. You run away until you can turn and defend yourself, then you do.


If you have a good team setup it's relatively easy to have map control and defend an area with ease. Every Halo has been a series of tactical retreats in a tug of war like mechanic when two evenly matched teams play each other. However these are teams which are working together as a team if it's just Red team vs Blue team with a bunch of randoms there will very rarely ever be team setups.

I simply don't agree that the game is designed so you die, if anything I would say the opposite as there's more ways you can escape certain death compared to previous Halo's. If I'm playing FFA on Haven I usually equip the jetpack or thurster pack which means if enemies are chasing me I can simply jump up to the walkway above to get away.

As much as I dislike some of the mechanics in Halo 4 I don't find myself getting killed anymore than previous Halo's or doing any worse :/


Edit: I do agree with your other points though, especially with reference to that teams which use teamwork will have a greater advantage :)
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Re: What Happened to the Halo That I Used to Know?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:27 am

Black Knight wrote:
I simply don't agree that the game is designed so you die, if anything I would say the opposite as there's more ways you can escape certain death compared to previous Halo's. If I'm playing FFA on Haven I usually equip the jetpack or thurster pack which means if enemies are chasing me I can simply jump up to the walkway above to get away.

As much as I dislike some of the mechanics in Halo 4 I don't find myself getting killed anymore than previous Halo's or doing any worse :/


Most weapons kill in less than 2 seconds. Your shields don't begin recharging for 6 seconds. Once they do begin recharging they're relatively quick about it, 2 seconds from no-shields to full shields. However this means each fight endangers you for four times the time it took to resolve it.

Also while you're waiting for your shields to return people can respawn instantly in slayer, everyone has sprint and can see through walls should they choose. Maps are in fact circular and are in fact designed specifically to have few defensible locations. Just because Adrift is a square doesn't mean you don't run laps in it. They're designed like race tracks, literally.

On multiple occasions I've been killed, respawned, walked a short distance and headshotted my killer before his shields returned. I've gotten double kills on the same guy on either side of his respawns (Killed him, he respawned and I killed him again within 4.5 seconds), and I've gotten double kills on either side of my respawns (Killed someone, died, respawned instantly, killed someone else within 4.5 seconds). That's Halo 4 maps, respawns, and shields.

They made all clips shallower. They took a round out of the DMR's clip so that it would have to reload before 5-shotting a third person, they made the BR 5-shot so it has to reload after 2.4 kills instead of 3, and they made the Carbine 8-shot so it also has fewer kills than before. This way you're often reloading when your second fight finds you and players get more "Reload This" medals. You're also frequently one-shot when the second fight finds you so hopefully you put some shots on him before he headshotted you for his easy kill.

You can pretend they didn't do these things, but the fact is they did these things and their results are not debatable. If you make it so a weapon has fewer kills in its clip, people will have to reload sooner. That's just a fact, it's math, and it's Halo 4.

If you make a person one-shot for longer they will die more easily more often. It DOES balance out because you get just as many free kills as they do, but the point is there are more free kills. My K/D is higher than in previous Halos too (Although it's dropping sharply lately because I've been playing hideously), but that doesn't change the fact that Halo 4 is designed for players to get one kill then die. That's the game, no amount of arguing or feeling differently will make your shields return faster, your weapon gain rounds in its clip, or the maps gain strong points.

You may be better at Halo 4 because of one reason or another, I suspect you are because players who were good before are still usually better, but the design of the game has an obvious intent. People with high K/Ds don't disprove the fact that the game is designed for players to get one kill then die, they just show that players still distinguish themselves from each other with skill levels. That's just as obvious as everything else I've said. A better player will do better, no surprise there. A player with no shields for 6 seconds is more likely to die, no surprise there either.

Things that were one way previously often stay the same due to new features. The fact that you can't pick up grenades without a perk is largely irrelevant because you can respawn isntantly with more. You have as many as you need to get one kill and then live on at a disadvantage. You will still get attacked by players with full grenades because they're coming back to life with more while you have to get them from ordnance or the resupply perk.

A better player will survive longer, but each fight you survive hinders you more than ever. You don't get your shields back for a long time, you don't get grenades back, you're lower on ammo unless the guy you killed shared your loadout preferences, you have to move even though you're not ready, and no you can't hide because everyone can see you.

Like I said, it's mathematical. It's not my opinion. I'm not trying to be cute, the facts are clear as day. Not everyone has thought about it or researched as much as I have, just sharing what I know.
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Re: What Happened to the Halo That I Used to Know?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:31 am

The maps are also a lot larger so the time to get into an engagement is usually longer compared to Halo 3 or Halo 2 which had maps a fraction of the size they are in Halo 4. So that helps to cancel out the long shield recharge times in matchmaking. Also you have more gimmicks which help to extend your average life so you can get out of situations which would otherwise result in you being killed in previous Halo's.

Ie. - Regeneration field allows for your shields to instantly recharge as soon as you walk into it. So if you're playing an objective gametype this AA has many benefits. Sprint in it's self allows you to escape more often than not and coupled with something like the thurster pack allows for some great hit and run gameplay.

You could get double kills in previous Halo's on the same player just like Halo 4 I've played double team in Halo 3 and managed to get Triple kills even though there's only 2 players on the other team. Others have managed to get Exterms. It's all about predicting your spawns, Halo 4 may be easier in this regard since players can choose to instant spawn but you choose not to instant respawn.

Reloading is all about picking the right time to do so and not leaving yourself vulnerable, if you're just running around a map reloading when ever you're putting yourself at risk of being killed. Keeping tabs on where the enemy team is and most importantly picking your fights will help prevent you from even getting into situations where it quickly becomes 2v1. Besides that situation can arise in any Halo but in Halo 4 you have ways to quickly get out of that situation.

Ie - Playing on the pit in Halo 3 in OS corridor. You out BR one guy and are left with 1/3 of yourshields regardless if you have to reload or not if another player shows up you're effectively screwed. Take this same situation in Halo 4 and you could use Sprint + Thruster pack to quickly run away to your teammates.

My view on the game is that you make your own luck but yes there are some mechanics in Halo 4 which are flat out awful such as not being able to recover grenades from dead players. However that makes map pickups even more important and don't forget there's always personal ordnance to get freebie weapons delivered right to your feet -_-
Haven't ran into a problem with running out of ammo on my primary weapons as it seems like everyone uses the DMR, the only problem I have with ammo is on the camp fest that is Valhalla.

The game is designed to be more casual that I'm sure off but I disagree that it was designed so you die after getting a single kill. Sure it might be easier to die and you could be punished more for making bad decisions but you can get around it.
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Re: What Happened to the Halo That I Used to Know?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:50 am

I agree that Halo 4 promotes selfish play and discourages teamwork and I think it all stems from the ranking system. There is barely a punishment for quitting, and almost negligible reward for winning. Completing individual challenges, commendations and earning medals takes priority. After getting to 50 I suddenly realized I have no real desire to play Halo 4. I have unlocked all the weapon/perks and used them all, but I just don't feel like there is any point to playing like in previous games.

As far as gameplay goes, I think that the randomization of fights via armor abilities, support packages and tactical packages has made the game significantly less tactical, and much more casual. Whether or not the game is designed for a 1.0 K/D ratio is irrelevant. The fact is that there is no incentive for teamwork and thus it just doesn't happen like it used to. Randoms are are extremely undependable, moreso than Halo 3. The maps/spawns also do not promote a battle where the two teams meet in the center to battle, it is constantly shifting around the entire map, which Sarge pointed out as the flanking problem.

BlacKnight - honestly I don't think you've played this game enough. I was home for three weeks, played enough games to get to a 52 and didn't see you online once. You're still at a 45 and I'm taking the liberty of assuming that most of your play has been in full or nearly full parties with above average players, and thus your interactions do not really reflect the experience we have had.


I'll conclude by saying that last night Sarge and I went back to Halo Reach and played 2 games of Invasion. Those two games were the most fun gaming I have had in the last three weeks. I'll most likely be selling Halo 4 soon while I can still get most of my money out of it.
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Re: What Happened to the Halo That I Used to Know?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:22 am

Thank you, RJ. What I've tried to point out here is that the problem with Halo 4 cannot be broken down bit by bit. It's not like we have piles of problems that are separate from each other. The problem is that they're stacked on top of each other, compounding the issue. We have a game that does not reward people significantly for winning, so people don't feel compelled to win games; rather, they focus on getting maximum score for their playstyle. We have a game that doesn't reward significantly for teamwork while simultaneously removing some of the oldest teamwork-related tools the game had; thus, players tend to move around more selfishly, or follow someone aggressive to vulture their kills.

Simply arguing that we need MOAR TEAMWORK is an argument that goes nowhere. I've requested film from everyone so I can see what people are doing from different perspectives with different groups of players to find solutions to promote more teamwork through strategy. I like to write out what my issues are because it helps me focus.

In this dialogue between Bloody and BK, both of you have actually stressed exactly what my problems are. Bloody, your solution is turtle harder or swarm harder. That's a problem for me. BK, your solution is for everyone to simply play solo and try to survive at all costs. That's also a problem for me. There is no middle ground thus far for me.
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Re: What Happened to the Halo That I Used to Know?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:35 am

Should mention that I stay away from some of the larger playlists such as BTB as I find them god awful to play due to many of the points mentioned here. Having ordnance weapons delivered right to your feet on Ragnarok such as camo snipers means there is literally no incentive to push forwards. However when in a party there's still some incentive to push forward and put the other team into a spawn trap.

I tend to play small maps more so and the core Halo experience is still there with opening strats, power positions etc. Haven't been on much over xmas due to connection issues but will once I go back to Uni this weekend. I just don't agree with all this that the game doesn't reward teamwork as the fact that there's no waypoints markers on friendlies means that the team which is saying where they're moving on the map will do better.

If someone is close to their personal ordnance you let them capture the flag so they can get it faster. Things like this all lead to better teamwork. There's not a lot of incentive to win in this game but it's no different to Halo Reach where you were just playing to get credits to buy armour and once you did that playing for a little rank icon which took years to get.

Besides all this 343 have mentioned ranked playlists coming in the title update whether it will be good or not is another issue.

the fact is that there is no incentive for teamwork and thus it just doesn't happen like it used to.


The ability to throw the oddball to teammates creates new teamwork dynamics.
Forced to protect the flag carrier is a teammate incentive.
Maintaining map control is a teammate incentive.
The position of your teammates to force the other team to spawn where you want them is a teammate incentive.

How can you say there's no incentive for teamwork?
(*** I don't agree with most of the changes to Halo 4 and generally dislike them but teamwork and teamwork incentives are still there***)
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Re: What Happened to the Halo That I Used to Know?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:16 pm

Black Knight wrote:
The game is designed to be more casual that I'm sure off but I disagree that it was designed so you die after getting a single kill. Sure it might be easier to die


Snipped this part because you agreed with me. You don't automatically die after one kill, but they certain stack the odds for that conclusion.

Sarge wrote:

In this dialogue between Bloody and BK, both of you have actually stressed exactly what my problems are. Bloody, your solution is turtle harder or swarm harder. That's a problem for me.


In the games I've played where I felt absolutely destroyed the enemies did turtle harder or swarm harder. I used to criticize that behavior in Halo 3 because as far as I was concerned being close to teammates was just lining yourself up for a multikill. In Halo 4 you don't have a lot of other tools. You need teammates nearby to guarantee the outcome of your combats. Even when you beat someone solidly you're going to be vulnerable for awhile. In Halo 3 and in Reach you didn't want teammates very close, especially in Reach where explosions were huge, but in Halo 4 I'm not necessarily saying "MOAR TEAMWORK" so much as a specific kind of team movement. It doesn't matter where you are in the maps nearly so much as it matters that you have help nearby.

Also just so we're clear I don't like my conclusions any better than you guys do. I've just seen a lot more evidence enforcing them. Please don't think that it is with any joy I present this information though. They wanted the game to play a certain way instead of allowing for multiple styles, mine was one of the ones that didn't make the cut.
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Re: What Happened to the Halo That I Used to Know?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:55 pm

I agree with sarge regarding loadouts, ordnance drops and random weapon spawns. These things go completely against what made halo halo. and we can't really do anything about it. Its up to 343 to make playlists where these things are disabled. So far the only one is team slayer pro. Which is super fun, except for the lack of radar. Really the only remaining halo elements are the shields, radar, and vehicles (sort of).

But having said that, I still enjoy the gameplay.

I didn't play much reach, so i'm not used to the crazy teamwork of invasion. But I guess coming from that, Halo 4 would seem very un teamworky.

I definitely think there is potential for a lot of good teamwork in this game. Its just way harder to pull off than it was before. You need some very coordinated teams to pull off good flanking maneuvers.

In halo 3, what you needed to do was obvious. Don't let people take over your BR line. Don't let people through keyhole. Don't let people on top of your base on sandbox. If that happened, you usually lost the game. It was very hard to push a good team off your line. Now, if you get pushed too hard, your team will just spawn somewhere else.

Anyways, in halo 4 big team, teamwork is hard because you constantly need to adapt and switch strategies on the fly depending on what the enemy is doing. The best way to improve this, I think is to play together, and play more. Of course this is hard to do, this isn't our job, we don't need to take this very seriously.
Either that, or play with a team captain, who is in charge of telling people where to go. I have some ideas for this, but they should probably go in a different thread.

Also, you CAN control the amount of ordnance the enemy team gets. if you don't die, the enemy gets no medals, thus no ordnance. This is why i propose that everyone switch to the hardlight shield! Seriously, the shield is probably the BEST teamwork tool. i always get "nice teamwork" comments when playing.
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Re: What Happened to the Halo That I Used to Know?

Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:49 am

Criporc wrote:
Either that, or play with a team captain, who is in charge of telling people where to go. I have some ideas for this, but they should probably go in a different thread.


This has given me some success in the pass. The fact is I play like a generalist thug, and I only specialize when I know it's approved/ordered by my team (I.e. gunning, sniping, operating a certain vehicle). I tend to feel like I don't have the right to just claim the same position every game unless it's a position that no one fights over like jumping for laser on Ragnarok. Since I enjoy variety I assume everyone else does. It's a friendly approach but slightly limited due to its political correctness (Individual success is almost always the result of selfishness, believe it or not, so the best sniper is probably the dude who whores it hardest. Probably not the best teammate).

However my most successful team games tend to happen when one person calls the shots and says "this person do this, that person do that" because what matters is that your team members are all on the same page even if they're not all doing the perfect job.

That's my personal style though, I don't multitask well and I have a hard time focusing on anything but playing. Other people with more mental versatility can probably do better operating a team-wide strategy without a captain telling them what to do. It's very easy for me to think in hindsight what needed to be done, but I'm not that good at paying attention to the big picture when I'm in the middle of a game.
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