Get in the Hog if you want to live!

 
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Yozi
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Hogshore (beta)

Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:50 pm

I made a rough draft of this map back in december, and now, after learning how to ghost merge non-moving objects a few days ago (thanks again for the tip, Black Knight), I've tried to further realize the idea of turning Longshore into a hog-friendly map.
It's far from done, however.

Here's a photobucket slideshow with screenshots of the map, all taken today. (Notice the title in the lower left corner of each picture if you don't understand/know some of the callouts I use for locations)

My goal is a map where hogs are more important than on maps like Last Resort or Rats Nest (or at least as important), but not as unforgivably vital as on a map like Standoff.

Now, I'm not an experienced forger. I know some practical tricks, but I don't know how to build maps properly right off the bat. Well, maybe in theory, kinda sorta... but not really. So I'll need any help, feedback and criticism I can get from you guys.

To start off, I've made driving around the map easier by adding several ramps and platforms as well as moved/removed some existing objects that hindered hog movement (see pictures in album above).

I think the fundamental geometry alterations of the map are pretty much done (tho I've considered adding a huge, curving highway up in the air going from top of M Building to top of K Building - please suggest wild ideas like that if you can think of any)

Spawns:
Spoiler: show
I have yet to touch any of the spawn points (except one outside the M building, which I moved just a tiny bit to make room for a ramp). I hope to be able to keep as many of them as possible in their current spots. I know spawns are a very important part of a map, so I will listen to any advice about how the spawns need to be changed to fit with all the other changes on the map.

Weapons:
Spoiler: show
- Put the rockets at a neutral point on the upper wood deck, hoping it'll be THE powerweapon to control. I'm doubtful about how this will work. The upper wood deck is in fact one of the areas I feel still needs its geometry changed, I'm just not sure how. In any case I simply don't see the need to put a laser on the map. I doubt anyone would disagree with this unless they really like the laser, but feel free to argue the opposite. Same probably goes for the missile pod, tho I might experiment with that one.

- Added one brute shot in a weapon holder to each side. When rockets aren't available, I'm hoping these will become one of the primary anti-hog weapons. Might need to put one or two extra ones somewhere on the map.

- Sword removed. Reasoning? No bridge room camping allowed! :P

- Kept the sniper rifles just as they were. Not sure what to do with them yet, or if they even need to be on the map.

- Removed shotgun from lower wood deck and moved the other one to a neutral position near original OS spawn. Not sure about keeping these either, or where to place them.

Grenades:
Spoiler: show
Most grenades are untouched, if not all. I might have moved some of the stickies in the broiler room, but that's it, I think.

Equipment/Powerups:
Spoiler: show
- Put camo in sword room at a neutral position. Might move this one into the freezer instead, where I've put the bubble shield instead of the original rockets (that means no bubble shield on the upper wood deck).

- Removed powerdrain. Too easy to use against a hog.

- Removed grav lift in broiler room. It feels redundant with all the new ramps.

- Regens are fine at their original positions IMO, so I haven't touched those.

- Moved overshield to original camo spawn on lower wood deck. It's a neutral position, so if I was going to keep it on the map, it seemed like a good place to put it.

- I'm considering putting a tripmine somewhere on the map. Maybe on the lower wood deck? Previously I'd put one at original OS spawn, but I removed it.

Vehicles:
Spoiler: show
- A goose in the broiler room. I couldn't resist putting one there. ::wink:: I'm considering putting another one on the lower wood deck.

- Warthogs!? One per base!? Who'd a thunk it?!! Not sure they're in perfectly balanced postions, but then that goes for a lot of things on the map right now. :P

Supported gametypes:
Spoiler: show
I've restricted myself to Big Team Slayer for now. 8v8 to 6v6, possibly 5v5. Maybe I'll put in support for objective games sometime later. I know this really is a one-sided semi-asymmetrical map, but I think it can work for slayer, much like Last Resort and vanilla Longshore does. They're not 100-percent-MLG-approved-balanced-to-teh-max maps, but they're balanced enough to be fun IMO. Got any suggestions towards making the map more symmetrical or balanced in some way? Speak up!

Here's the map in my file share.


Have at it and give me your thoughts! ::hog::
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Re: Hogshore (beta)

Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:19 pm

Looks awesome Yozi, its come on a lot since i last saw it!

if you need a playtester in your timezone give me a shout.
 
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Re: Hogshore (beta)

Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:22 pm

Same here. looks amazing, I'd be glad to help out, although I have no mic atm.
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Re: Hogshore (beta)

Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:29 pm

I should be on XBL tomorrow if you want any advice on some stuff. Spawns and weapon placement will be the most difficult.
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Twisted
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Re: Hogshore (beta)

Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:38 pm

Longshore is a brutal spawn-killing map, even worse than last resort if the offensive base team gets pushed back. Warthogs will just make that problem worse. i suggest spawn points inside the base. a pp somewhere in or on the base, and the manturret repositioned to look towards the ocean. thats just my thoughts.
If you think we're a rolling double kill.. come get it.
 
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Re: Hogshore (beta)

Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:26 am

Thanks guys. Don't be afraid to give criticism tho.

And yeah that's true, Twisted. That's why I'm only supporting slayer for now, where the spawns are dynamic. And even with all this open space on the map, it's still not gonna be a Sandbox or a Standoff to drive on, so I think there shouldn't be too many weapons that are easy to camp corners with and wait for the hog to pass by. Plasma pistols in the bases seem reasonable tho. Thanks.

To get objective to work, I'm beginning to think spawns, equipment and weapon sets will have to be done from scratch. So I'll worry about that later. Would be great to get symmetrical objective games to work... ::panic::

Ideas for new geometry:

- Adding a sort of extension behind M building to make it more drivable.

- Don't know if I should keep those boxes to the left. Maybe do a small ramp there too, narrow enough to be mainly for infantry? :P Would have to make something similar by the other brute shot spawn.
Also a bridge from K building to old sword room... this would break balance for camo and require moving of it, but would provide a risky escape route for hogs.

*edit* Removed huge broken images.
Last edited by Yozi on Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Black Knight
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Re: Hogshore (beta)

Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:09 am

Twistedgrave 9i wrote:
Longshore is a brutal spawn-killing map, even worse than last resort if the offensive base team gets pushed back. Warthogs will just make that problem worse. i suggest spawn points inside the base. a pp somewhere in or on the base, and the manturret repositioned to look towards the ocean. thats just my thoughts.


Last Resort is by far the worst map for spawn killing and it's very easy to do so. There are fewer spawn zones on lastresort 3 main spawn locations but it's effectively two. An area around the flag score location and another under the arch. On this map you have the high ground so it's ridiculously easy to spawn kill even more so if you have the hog. Longshore is alot harder to get a setup like this as there is more areas for the other team to keep on lockdown and it's alot more spaced out with more cover also.

The people looking at Ghost spawn can't fire on players at Invis spawn. On last resort you can do this. If you have 3/4 players on top of the sniper perch they can switch between the main spawn locations with ease so they have more sight lines compared to longshore. This allows for more BR's to be pointed at spawning players leading to an effective spawn trap.

Longshore is like rats nest for one sided objective, if the defensive team push up spawn killing is easy.
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Re: Hogshore (beta)

Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:21 pm

Objective (1 sided) seems easy enough to do... just make the defensive base not have a hog but put a ghost in its place... Make the hog "Symmetric" instead of "Both" and the Ghost "Asymmetric"... that would give defense a serious vehicle without making the whole map about slaying and spawn killing that 2 hogs gives.

Its why they removed the Banshees from 5v5 Objective Valhalla and the Banshee on Sandtarp 1-sided.

The only thing that could/should change, objective wise, would be territories IMO.

Good forgery!
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Yozi
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Re: Hogshore (beta)

Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:42 am

Been working on the map quite a bit recently. Will update the OP and the broken pics later.

Added, moved and removed lots of geometry (had to slightly adjust some spawn points there). Biggest visual changes is a lot more space to drive on along the shoreline and the "Box yard" outside K building. Also added a new ramp to top of K building ("defense" base).

Decided to remove the overshield entirely. It just didn't feel justified. Camo still spawns top mid (above the freezer).
I set the turret on K building to "asymmetric" (didn't wanna remove it yet) and moved the turret on M building to the very top (to cover a larger area).
Moved the sniper by M building to the "Fish Tacos" building.
Removed the regens in the bases and the bubble shields now spawn in open areas (standoff-style ::mrgreen:: ).
Also thinking about removing the two brute shots and/or replacing the rockets with a brute shot.
I'm probably forgetting some stuff since I made so many changes, but that's about it. Most of the weapons and equipment are still up in the air as far as placement and quantities go. I changed it so many times that I don't even remember what spawns in the freezer any more... ::FP:: *edit* It's a grav hammer at the moment. Plasma pistols has also been added to where both powerups originally spawn (one at each).

Have a look:
Hogshore 2.2 (still calling it a beta =P)

Luv Gunn wrote:
Objective (1 sided) seems easy enough to do... just make the defensive base not have a hog but put a ghost in its place... Make the hog "Symmetric" instead of "Both" and the Ghost "Asymmetric"... that would give defense a serious vehicle without making the whole map about slaying and spawn killing that 2 hogs gives.

I still refuse to seriously consider supporting objective games for this map (getting slayer to work is enough food for thought) but once the Slayer version is done, I'll definitely consider this. Thanks for the input, it IS appreciated! :wave:
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Re: Hogshore (beta)

Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:34 pm

Made even more changes...

Hogshore 2.3
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