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Are you happy with Reach?

Yes
12 (52%)
No
11 (48%)
 
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Are you happy with the current settings in Reach?

Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:00 am

For me personally I'm quite disappointed but most of what I consider faults can be easily addressed by either in game options or the release of a patch.

Maps:
To be honest I consider these one of the biggest issues as there are very little symmetrical arena styled maps. In BTB we have maps that aren't suited to BTB at all such as Atom or maps such as Paridaso and Boneyard that give one side such a huge advantage.


Gametypes:
These gimmick gametypes such as HeadHunter don't work in BTB. When you kill an opponent his skulls drop out were he dies so when you're playing Hemorrhage and kill players the skulls appear on their side of the map. Gametypes such as these require dynamic spawns and imo not suited to BTB at all. Elite slayer is another example of a poor gametype since there is little to no weapons to counter the banshee as the needlerifle does so little damage to vehicles.

King of the Hill in Reach is completely broken as there is no set order of KoTH markers. We played a game the other day in BTB were the hill spawned at our shotgun on Hemorrhage. It then spawned in the middle and back at our base much to the dislike of blue team.

Invasion slayer requires a complete overhaul so that elites and spartans are balanced especially on Hemorrhage were the capture points favour the spartans in tier 1.

There's various other playlists that require fixes too such as infection as you can get outside the man as a survivor and spawn kill the zombies but I have little care for playlists like these.

BeatDowns
Beatdowns need to be patched so that they bleed into health again. If you land 3 DMR shots into a guy that is sprinting towards you they have no effect in the outcome of the battle as you will be forced to trade double beatdowns.

Bloom:
I'm more or less happy with this but spamming is a real issue. Someone that paces their shots and controls their bloom can lose to other players spamming the trigger and getting lucky not a good game mechanic.
Good thread relating to bloom and the fundamental problem

It works out at something like a 20% chance that spamming will allow you to win by the random element. So 1 out of every 5 1vs1 battles you will lose to spamming opponents.

Armour Abilities:
One of the most debated topics as there's so many mixed feelings over them. Personally I despise ArmourLock in objective games and on certain maps and gametypes. If you've played BTB slayer on countdown it resorts in the only armour ability being armour lock which is why this map has been dubbed "Team ArmourLock".
In standard slayer I don't have a problem with this AA or in Invasion and most BTB maps. However I think that If you get stuck you should still be killed even if you activate armourlock as this is incredibly frustrating. If the armourlock user saw a stick coming towards them and used armourlock to block the stick before it stuck them, then that's using armourlock how it was intended but using it after you've been already stuck requires no skill.

An example of this would be playing CTF were the game is in suddendeath and the enemy has your flag and is about to win. However you see them and throw a sticky grenade hoping to stop him. You watch as your stick lands on their back and you think "OMG Clutch stop" however they use armourlock to survive it and score the flag. Imo that's pretty retarded.

Possible solutions:
-Placed as pickups like equipment in objective.
-kept in BTB but not BTB countdown.
-kept in Invasion.
-kept in slayer (not arena)

Other ways it could be balanced:
-remove 360 spinning or include a haze and First person view while in armourlock. Haze as in the hud becomes static since all the power is going to ur shields.


I'll like to see maps that use the old Inivs and OS again as they encouraged map movement and setups to control them. Currently these two powerups are going to needed to be patched before they can be used in matchmaking :[

Vehicle Physics:
These aren't too bad however,
The warthog needs to be given a mass increase so the effects of being DMR pushed and flipped is less significant. The increased aim assist while being in the side seat of a vehicle needs to be patched.

Matchmaking Splits:
Getting split and fighting against your friends in BTB is highly annoying and Bungie did seem to see this as a problem in Halo3 when Shishka asked players to submit games were they got split. However this led to nothing and we're still getting split in Reach.

Solution: Release a patch that gives the player the preference if they want team splits or not. This will allow people that want to search with 16 players to continue to do so.

Currently one of the best playlists in Reach is Invasion as it's pretty much the perfect playlist for AA's since they unlock at tiers. The maps were also built with Invasion in mind so they work pretty well in that regard compared to 4vs4 maps being added to BTB.
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Re: Are you happy with Reach?

Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:13 am

great pic *5stars!
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Re: Are you happy with Reach?

Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:19 am

i like the game, there are somethings that need tweeking but nothing that is going to make me stop playing. One of my biggest gripes is that when me and my wife are playing (2 live accounts) when we vote on a game both go to the selected game we should each get a vote.
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Re: Are you happy with Reach?

Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:57 am

There are a couple things in here that I agree with. First, there definitely needs to be some more symetrical maps in all the playlists. The smaller playlists are not too bad, but the bigger playlists are riddled with maps that are not best suited for an even match. Your depiction of Paradiso is a great example of this fact. I feel the downfall on many of the maps is that they fell back on parts of the Campaign missions to bring maps into the game. A one way objective type mission is not made for an fair, even multi-player experience.

I am not a big fan of the Armor Abilities all the time either. This is another reason why I have been trying to stick to Arena where there are fewer AA's to be annoyed with. The next season of Arena is also going to remove Armor Lock from one of the playlists. This is going to be a great move. Also, the MLG playlist that is coming out in December will not have any load-out options except for Sprint, so I expect a lot of the AA haters will move over to MLG. When they do this, I think Bungie will take notice and make another non-MLG playlist that removes all the AA from the game.

My jury is still out for the Vehicles. I am not certain if they are set to be able to take enough damage yet for the game. The biggest problem with vehicles I see so far is that there aren't any maps that are really geared toward the hog. All the maps in which they are present allow for long distant shots onto the hog with little to no cover for retreat. Again, this just goes right back to map selection in my opinion.

I can't really say much for KoTH of Head Hunter in BTB as I rarely get to play those options. If the hills are not consistent, I would see that as a problem. As for Head Hunter, I think it may be best suited for a FFA playlist instead of a team game for the reasons you stated. I also avoid anything with Zombies. I can't stand the one sided nature of the game-type and think it should be removed from every Halo game that has ever existed.

I could care less about the beatdowns. They just made it more like CoD with knifing. Sprint around and beat down people and move on. At least in Reach, they give you a fighting chance by agiving you a second to react.

I also think the passenger needs patched. It is a major problem and needs solved.

I like Reach. Find what you like in Match Making and stick wtih it. Reach is full of options to keep a variety of player occupied. Hell, if you find out you don't like Reach, then stop playing it and find another game that floats your boat.
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Re: Are you happy with Reach?

Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:44 am

Please, i do not want this to become a "here's my complaint list" thread, we already have enough of those.
Bungie has put out a good game. I really enjoy playing it (however limited my playing has been due to not having my own 360 or copy of the game). Yes, there are kinks that need to be worked out. But these do not break the game or make it un-enjoyable for me.

We know that bungie has a good rapport with its community, and is generally good about listening to feedback and helping make a perfect game. The game is still in its infancy, and i do expect much more to come from this game.
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Re: Are you happy with Reach?

Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:15 am

H3WM Cheeseball wrote:
Please, i do not want this to become a "here's my complaint list" thread, we already have enough of those.


Not my intention. My first thread was much more detailed but the site crashed and I lost my thread and I wasn't prepared to write it all out again. Should of changed it to "Are you happy with the current settings of Reach?". If not what would make you enjoy them more? Etc...

To be honest BTB has grown on me this last week and I'm enjoying it a lot more but it has so much potential that is being spoiled on some maps not suited to BTB and some other factors. Invasion is also another playlist I enjoy with a full party of people that use the guides on this site.
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Re: Are you happy with Reach?

Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:51 am

H3WM Cheeseball wrote:
Please, i do not want this to become a "here's my complaint list" thread, we already have enough of those.


I agree. I will try to make this post about something in Reach that enjoy quite a bit: Invasion

Black Knight wrote:
Invasion is also another playlist I enjoy with a full party of people that use the guides on this site.


::flex:: ::flex:: ::flex:: ::flex:: ::flex:: ::flex:: ::flex:: ::flex:: ::flex::

Balance

I <3 Invasion. It is the only playlist right now that I can play consistently and enjoy. I don't feel like I'm playing an imbalanced gametype (Sure, Boneyard is hella hard for Elites, but it's not impossible when you know what you're doing).

One thing I love about Invasion over the rest of matchmaking, is that it's actually quite difficult to set up a spawn trap. Enemies have so many options on where to spawn that setting up a solid spawn trap is actually quite impressive. Because pure slaying isn't as easy as it is in normal matchmaking, I feel that you're more inclined to keep moving forward for the objective.

Weapons and Vehicles

On the topic of weapons, Invasion, to me, feels like it uses a larger variety of weapons than any other playlist. It's not a matter of the weapons not being available in other playlists, but they don't get used like they do in Invasion. In a game of Invasion where I get 20 kills, my top ToD might be the needle rifle with 7 kills. That means I got 13 other kills with various weapons. I don't see that happening a lot in BTB. It's either DMR, power weapon, vehicle for the majority of someone's kills.

My point about the use of so many different weapons means that there are many different situations you face in an Invasion game that require the use of other weapons. On Tier 2 Spire Spartan, I will use Sprint/DMR to get to the spire, and shoot back at elites, but if I die and can "spawn on my bro co-op style" on the Spire, I will take Armor Lock/AR because it's a CQC situation there. In BTB, it's just a DMR/power weapon/vehicle war.

Vehicles actually work a lot better in Invasion than they do in BTB imo as well. When you run a vehicle at the proper times in Invasion, it can kick some serious ass, and you don't spend most of the game herpin and derpin behind a hill hoping the guys sitting around with DMRs get bored so you can push forward.

Parties and Teamwork

Another thing I really love about Invasion is that our parties have never been split, even the partial parties. Can't say that for BTB.

Speaking of partial parties, Invasion is the one playlist where I can go in without a full party and not be completely frustrated with the game. As long as I have a battle buddy I can trust, I'm usually okay. I don't mind going into Invasion as just a pair with Twisted or RJ because we work well in game, even if our other teammates fail, so it's still fun for me.

On that note, I enjoy the teamwork of Invasion a lot more than any other playlist. The synergy between battle buddies and the rest of their team is awesome and indescribable, but it's what I always wanted to get out of Halo. When I have a communicating battle buddy I trust, Invasion is at its best for me

Game Pace

I'm also a big fan of the pace of Invasion. Small maps feel really fast annoy the Pineapple out of me because of the retarded spawns that always seem to end in me getting spawn-sniped repeatedly, or end up being unable to move around the map because someone is positioned with a power weapon. Yeah, the smartasses are going to say that I need to learn the maps more so that kind of stuff won't happen, but overall, I'm not a fan of the small map experience in reach. ]

Then, on the other end of the spectrum, BTB is actually quite boring compared to Invasion. I get so bored with the amount of idle ti me there is in a game of Reach BTB. Most of the game is spent moving around to get to a position, to then sit there and wait for enemies to move around that position. Hemorrhage, for example, always ends in the vehicles and sniper chilling back at mid, because they get team-DMR'd to piss when they try to move forward, and the 1 or 2 guys left on foot usually get bored, try to push the enemy side without support, and die. BTB makes me feel ADD these days.

On the other hand, Invasion always leaves you with stuff happening constantly. There is always something to worry, process, and prepare for in Invasion on Defense. Then, there's always the constant rethinking of plans to get into the objective on Offense. I just never feel like there's a dull moment in a game of Invasion. I feel completely engrossed in the gameplay the whole time.



So yeah, I don't like most of the playlists in Reach, but I <3 Invasion. In that regard then, I'm happy with Reach.
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Re: Are you happy with Reach?

Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:14 am

There are two main things I have noticed with people who are unhappy with Reach.

1. The complaints sound a lot like the complaints people had at the beginning of Halo 3

2. People don't like things they don't use.

The first complaint makes sense. Issues with lack of maps or with things needing tweaking happened at the beginning of Halo 3 as well. We had several years of map packs and upgrades to enjoy, and after almost a year of a huge variety of maps and a settled system that we all could live with suddenly Reach comes along. Does Reach need more maps? Sure? Does Reach need tweaking? Sure. But I don't think people would be nearly as upset if it wasn't for the fact that we came from over a year of "perfection" to a new game that doesn't have the years of tweaking and map packs yet.

The second complaint is more specific, and is hard to argue with because a lot of the time it comes down to "I don't like this" or "I like this". If someone just isn't happy then they're not happy. However slowly I've found some people who were dead set against some things a few weeks ago suddenly are changing their mind.

Examples:

- Bloom. People hate it. They despise it. They think it's unbalanced, and as BK shows think that spammers have a better chance of winning then people who pace their shots. Nevermind that people were insanely upset with the "random" spread on the BR and the idea that not all three shots would go exactly where they placed it. And we all know how much everyone hated the BR for the life of Halo because of it. ::wink:: Has spamming always been a problem? Just watch someone who's BR/DMRing get AR rushed and listen to them rage to find out. Yes, if you spit out bullets sometimes more of yours will hit. It's the laws of physics. The bloom is telling you how likely you are to hit things in that range, and is a useful tool especially at longer ranges. But guess what? Luck and skill go hand in hand. I can live with 1 in every 5 spammers winning, because that still puts me at a K/D of +4.

- Unbalanced maps. People RAGE over being the "wrong" color on Paradiso. Never mind all the times the red team has won. Countdown comes up and everyone rolls their eyes and complains about armor lock and grenade spamming...and yet admit in game to not knowing callouts. No one wants to vote for the new forgeworld maps because "everyone" agrees that they are bad. But when is the last time you played on one? Do we have any strats for those maps? BK you claim that Headhunter is broken because killing the other team at a distance gives them skulls. Does that mean Assult is broken because when you kill the bomb carrier at a distance you give them the bomb? I think headhunter is a strategic pleasure...but I'm a sniper. I'm used to not just killing because there's a guy to kill, but being selective about when and WHERE I kill him.

Of course not everything works, and I agree some of the gametypes and maps just do not work at all. But before you dismiss the map take a moment and ask yourself: Do I know where the weapons spawn? Do I know all the callouts? Are there any strategies for this map? How often have I ever really played it?

-Armor Abilities. People raged over equipment in Halo 3. Dropping bubble shields when you were about to die was "cheep" and remind me a lot of how people rage over armor lock now ("of course armor lock just as I'm gonna out DMR you!"). People who use armor lock in a smart way aren't doing the smart thing they're being "cheep". I've heard teammates rage over grenade spamming one minute, and then rage over THEIR grenade spamming not working because the other team used armor lock. I think armor abilities are awesome and even better then equipment from Halo 3 because anyone can pick any of them and change when needed. And when I use my equipment to save my life or help me kill you I'm pretty damn happy I'm playing smart. And if I get killed by someone doing the same thing to me then I take note and adjust my tactics and remember theirs.

Let's deal with armor lock before I end this huge post. There are TWO ways most people use armor lock:

1. To save themselves last second before they die. Either by rocket or sticky or just tons of fire.

2. To be the tank...be the front person on an offensive push that takes the most fire and draws out power weapons, then locks to survive and call out what he sees to his teammates.

In general most people have TWO reactions to someone who has armor locked:

1. Stop and stand there waiting for the person to come out of armor lock.

2. Back up/run away.

Anyone I know who hates armor lock reacts with #1. Which gets most people killed. Standing around waiting makes you a sitting duck...the guy in armor lock is safe for the moment, is going to come out with an EMP, and maybe facing a new direction. You are standing there. If the armor lock guy has teammates you are going to get teamshot and die.

May I suggest #2? Run the heck away. Back off and look for another target. Move to a better position. Get around a corner. Use that time to reposition yourself. Call him out as one shot and get out of there. Sprint. I use Sprint on Countdown and am pretty successful at it, because while the enemy is locked in place I can run around and get to better positions/to teammates/ away from grenades.

I'm not saying Sprint is better then Armor lock...there are times when I just can't run away or get outflanked. But I pick my ability and use it smartly, and then try to react smartly to other people. Remember those Halo 3 people who would run into your bubble when you had a shotgun or sword? Now remember those people who would back away and be patient, react to your strategy and counter it instead of just rushing in? Did that make the bubble shield a broken piece of equipment?

Is Reach perfect? Heck no. However I challenge you to look at the things you "hate" about it and see if there are things you are doing that cause that hatred before you decry Bungie to make changes.


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Re: Are you happy with Reach?

Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:34 am

BK you claim that Headhunter is broken because killing the other team at a distance gives them skulls. Does that mean Assult is broken because when you kill the bomb carrier at a distance you give them the bomb? I think headhunter is a strategic pleasure...but I'm a sniper. I'm used to not just killing because there's a guy to kill, but being selective about when and WHERE I kill him.


No because they need to bring the bomb to your base.
However in Headhunter the skulls fall out on their side of the map and they bring them to the goal on their side of the map. That is the crucial difference which is why I talked about having dynamic spawns or having a neutral capture point.

As far as armour lock goes I'm not 100% against it but it's clear that some maps/gametypes aren't suited to this AA as it becomes too powerful. Elite Slayer on Countdown in BTB is the perfect example and it negates all the other AA's. Assault is another example as you're able to defuse the bomb while in armourlock which is rather unfair for the attacking team. (Not sure if bungie has remove AL from Assault gametypes).

Also the reason I used the CTF example when you're in sudden death and you get a stick on the flag carrier but he armourlocks. Not much you do with that :/
However Duce mentioned how you can have a patch were it tells you what AA's people are using as you can see this with Jetpack for an example. This would mean that in the CTF situation you would know not to fire a sticky but instead try a sniper headshot etc..

As far as unbalanced maps go. Paridaso does favour the side spawning with the gradual slope. Of course you're going to win games spawning at cliff base but when you have two equally skilled teams then the advantage goes to the base with the gradual slope.

Mhmm I forgot to add split parties.

Don't think that I hate Reach as I do enjoy some of the playlists and these are what I personally would like to see happen.

However If a patch came out soon I would be happy with the following,

-Beatdown system improved.
-No more split parties.
-KoTH so it has a set order (MLG needs this too)
-OS and Invis power ups fixed for BTB.
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Re: Are you happy with Reach?

Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:57 pm

For me, Reach was my most anticipated game since Halo 3.......... ODST was great but it was reach was supposed to be ground breaking.

But......It just doesnt feel right, high expectations, me getting older, initial balancing issues, other games im reluctant to admit to myself are better....... i just don't know.

whats important is you guys are still here, and thats what I'm here for.

HWM BK wrote:
However If a patch came out soon I would be happy with the following,

-Beatdown system improved.
-No more split parties.
-KoTH so it has a set order (MLG needs this too)
-OS and Invis power ups fixed for BTB.


We have debates on a lot, but i agree with everything here. and most of your OP.

I enjoy reach.

rejection medals are the new wheelmen, and even though wheelmen are hard to come by, i will endeavorer to stay in the charts.

it upsets me that the hog overall isnt as valuable as 2 dmr ground pounders
some games we get a good run and we get enough kills/control for two people but predominately on most maps we'd be better off shield swapping on foot.

im looking forward to the new maps 2 of which will have a hog or two on and fingers crossed be more suitable.

i voted no, but id like to add No, at the moment. halo 3 changed a lot in the first year, and so will reach.
 
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Re: Are you happy with Reach?

Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:59 pm

Am I happy? No, Not at all.
 
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Re: Are you happy with Reach?

Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:36 pm

I'll try and keep this short and sweet.

Reach did a lot of "small" things really well. I.e, Forge, player customisation, firefight, campaign, better menus, fun new weapons, ranks that remove penis comparisons, no restarts, no boosters, etc.

However, when you get it down to the core base of the game, it just isn't as competitive, fast paced or as fun as Halo 3 was.
I wanted to like Reach, and had convinced myself I loved it a week into its release. But I haven't gone online now in like a week, and I don't intend to change that. I just don't feel an urge to switch on the xbox and play some games.

I dunno. Maybe a patch or something might help. But if you ask me, bloom was a bad idea. I actually liked it in the beta, but all it does is slow down gameplay and due to the reduced bloom on the DMR, is now solely based on luck.

I don't really mind armour abilities, although Bungie blatantly put armour lock in to Pineapple with the community.
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Re: Are you happy with Reach?

Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:48 pm

Haut Medoc wrote:
whats important is you guys are still here, and thats what I'm here for.

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... ranks that remove penis comparisons...

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Re: Are you happy with Reach?

Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:57 pm

A patch will be able to fix pretty much everything which the majority of players feel that needs to be fixed. If any of you were around for the start for Halo2 it was horrible but a patch came out a few months later and created one of the best XBL online games ever.

So yes currently Reach isn't the best but with a patch it could be. A patch could be tied into bungie looking for beta testers?

This weekly update might be interesting.
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Re: Are you happy with Reach?

Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:13 pm

Things I have been playing instead of halo Reach:

F1 2010

Forza 3

Crackdown 2

Mass effect 2 (£6 zomg)

It's not that I have any particular issue with Reach, but the way some people have a brutal insistence on dragging the game back to halo 2/3 style gameplay that i already spent like 8000 games playing just generally ruins the whole experience. Sure there are a lot of creases that need ironing out but ultimately you can't progress without tripping up along the way, and look what happened to every single major franchise that wallowed in its comfort zone too long... review scores went down the toilet along with their reputation until they did something radical. Burnout became burnout paradise, Call of duty became modern warfare (7/10 scoring to best ever selling), NFS has moved onto hot pursuit from the inane rehashes of NFS underground. And now Medal of honour is taking a massive, dramatic twist after practically a decade of embarrassing decline.

Do you really want halo to end up like sonic or super monkey ball? Bungie doesn't. Only Zelda, metal gear solid, and mario can get away without innovation, and that's because they're such classics that they've become un-replicable and irreplaceable.

Frankly I much prefer the Halo Reach of Invasion, Elite slayer, Spire, and armour abilities that try to keep the game fresh and original than the Halo Reach of slayer DMRs and endless halo 2 remakes that's really just a prettied up copy of how things were in 2004.
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